Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE



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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby livewire » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:15 pm

Moshe wrote:I'm just listening to Dave Cash on BBC Kent on listen again. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01j9s8w
The Hayley Oliver Band are very impressive here. Great vocals, good instrumentation, excellent songs.

I agree their live session was very sound, you couldn't fault it.
I haven't tuned into the Dave Cash show since February and he is still playing the same songs/artists I heard back then ‘Waylon ‘Luckenbach Texas’, Johnny Cash ‘Walk The Line’, Charlie Daniel Band 'the Devil went Down To Georgia", Steve Earle ‘Copperhead Road’. Kristofferson ‘The Road Goes On Forever' . Dave Cash was even blaming BBC cuts for three of the CD's not to play properly, maybe he has burnt laser groves into them with repeat plays.
After the BBC Radio Kent Country Hour was scrapped at the end of last year I'm really not sure how this programme has survived?

Hayley spoke about the World Record they have created on Hotdisc with their ninth #1 and they said they are going for a 10th with "Hand That Rocked the Cradle" in November. I know at one time to have a track included on Hotdisc it cost £200. I expect deals can be struck but it could of cost £2000 to achieve the feat.

The biggest failing of the interview was for Dave Cash NOT to ask the question how can listeners get hold of the the album :!:
I have monitored things to see just how much effect this radio exposure may or may not have had.
Before the interview the ABINGER GROVE album was ranked on Amazon UK Bestsellers (MP3 Albums) at #36,795.
Since then its gone backwards to #40,334 and currently registers a rank of #45,349. The highest its ever been was #15,181.
On the Top 1500 iTunes Country Album Chart it didn't appear and hasn't ALL week! = NO SALES.
Perhaps the band have had requests for physical sales from their online store :?: - http://www.mjmusicshop.co.uk/

To put this in perspective currently at #1 on Top 1500 iTunes Country Album Chart is Ireland's Derek Ryan's - Country Soul
A US artist ignored by BDS / Mediabase country radio stations in America, ignored by our 2 main Internet stations with NO exposure to date in Maverick or Country Music People and no tracks on Hotdisc has for 3 days been in the Top 10 of the UK iTunes Country Album chart and Top 40 all week on Amazon UK.

As we all know as far as the shops go they sell as much music in the final quarter of the year as they do the first 9 months.
So rather puzzling...
Dave Cash: Tour wise what are you up to?
ANSWER: Looking forward to NEXT year, we have some festivals coming up, in particular playing a country music festival in Denmark" (which will be their first in Europe)
Dave Cash: Are you going to be playing anything around the Kent area soon, or is it "I'm gonna hang out till Christmas man?
ANSWER: I think its a case of hanging out for a while, promoting the CD is keeping us pretty busy. So much work went into actually doing the CD that its nice to have a little break for a while to catch your breath.
Dave Cash: Your not working at all before Christmas?
ANSWER: "We're having a break, hanging around for Christmas and having a bit of fun"
Dave Cash:"Its a brilliant CD" - Dave Cash

Ton's of emails flooding in with Dave Cash only able to find the weekly message from Dennis from Dover who also sends emails to Keith Greentree and Brian Mann.
Just a few likes on The Hayley Oliver Band Facebook page to studio photo's but no real response.
Just WHO was listening? Maybe its time the BBC axed this country hour too.
I wonder what actual promotion is keeping the band busy.

Image

Moshe wrote: The best of luck to them. They need more exposure like this. Here they are better than several American acts. This is a big jump for them from the last album of theirs I bought a few years ago. Great stuff.


They have already had exposure like this. They were on this same show nearly 2 years ago.
Over 3 years ago they were getting played on all the local BBC country shows and tons of other stations in the UK and Europe.
Hayley did some interviews and she got played twice on BBC Radio 2 (not Bob Harris who has ignored the band regarding airplay)
I agree this new album is a much better album than " Naturally" . Maybe you could write to CMP and Maverick about it.
Someone like David Allan should of been backing the band to the hilt.

One thing we learnt was that Abinger Grove has been nominated for BCMA's Best Album category. The awards (which are cloaked in secrecy) has so far thrown up 3 nominated albums which you would have ONLY found out by listening to CMR Nashville or reading Raintown's Facebook page. The Hayley Oliver Band join stable mates Pete Kennedy with a nom. I wonder what other albums there might be?

To put it in a nutshell they haven't appeared to "Cash In" with a Dave Cash session.
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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby Moshe » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:03 pm

Well, Haley Oliver & her band appear to be doing well. They are making a living as a band without the necessity of touring their butts off.
Their laid back approach to touring clearly shows they are not worried, so I am not at all worried on their behalf.
To be making a living making music they like without having to be playing a different town every night is pretty neat!
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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby livewire » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:35 pm

Moshe wrote:Well, Haley Oliver & her band appear to be doing well. They are making a living as a band without the necessity of touring their butts off.
Their laid back approach to touring clearly shows they are not worried, so I am not at all worried on their behalf.
To be making a living making music they like without having to be playing a different town every night is pretty neat!


They are not making a living out of music, it looks like its a very expensive hobby.
Because as I understand it the band members have jobs and family obligations it probably means that the logistics of touring is not an option, rather selective festival dates played around weekends or solo appearances by Hayley without a full band.

They quite rightly deserve to be proud of their new album it's just that the promotional tools in place don't seem to be working in terms of selling their wares.
Like with Pete Kennedy if ABINGER ROAD wins BCMAwards Album of the Year it would be a little odd that it has little commercial appeal.
The same applies with UKCountryRadio.com's Listeners Club Award winning song.
That said The Time Jumpers album sold very small numbers at retail but got Grammy nominated.
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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby Moshe » Sat Oct 26, 2013 7:39 am

I believe that Hayley Oliver earns her living from her music, but I am not sure.

I can't be **** to follow sales figures- usually unreliable in any case, there are so many variables.
But for all the figures, most of the guys I follow in the music industry appear to be doing very well out of it.
The figures you see may indicate no record sales but, for example, I have just been reading something about Taylor Swift. Whatever her sales, she bought separate houses for both of her parents, & owns at least four expensive houses, I lost count but I think it is more, outright. So she certainly is not short of ready cash.
Likewise, Pam Tillis and Lorrie Morgan, whatever the sales of their album, are touring and making a lucrative living out of it.

As to sales, many albums are sold at gigs or through the artistes own website. I am sure not every single sale is reported to the body which calculates it all.
Further, where albums are sold at gigs, the profit margin for the artiste is huge.
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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby livewire » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:45 pm

I wrote: The moral of the story has to be there is NO MONEY in SELLING music anyone, especially if you're a Brit Country artist.
It's all about being live with the means to sell merch that way.
Band member Nigel Nesbitt:
gunner25 wrote:Indeed, it has taken a lot of money and time to produce this album, and i couldn't have put it better myself.
We will be releasing one more track from the album, and then i think it will be it for the band and hot disc, a complete waste of time and money i'm afraid.
Nigel

We await an update as to how effective the Dash Cash session was?

moshe wrote:The figures you see may indicate no record sales but, for example, I have just been reading something about Taylor Swift. Whatever her sales, she bought separate houses for both of her parents, & owns at least four expensive houses, I lost count but I think it is more, outright. So she certainly is not short of ready cash.

A strange comparison to make but yes, Taylor is one of the biggest artists in the world. Album sales 6-million worldwide this year so far.
Just playing one show at the O2 she probably recoups more from that from what it takes a forum member to earn in a lifetime.

I couldn't see a gig for the Hayley Oliver Band before Saturday 25th January 2014 to help sell their new album.
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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby LoneShark » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:02 pm

Couldn't agree more with you Livewirer, NO money to be made for British artistes' recordings.

Moshe I would doubt Hayley is making a living off her music, please take it from me a band on the club / festival scene here in the UK cannot survive on gigs / sales alone.

There is simply not enough interest to sustain it.

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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby gunner25 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:06 pm

Hi Guys, thanks for the comments and the input.
I agree with a lot of what has been said, but let me tell you the bands position.
We do not make any money from gigging at all, i don't know who does, unless you play 3-4 times a week.
As for the promotion of the Album, well we have tried to do it ourselves and if you don't know the right people or the right places to promote it, it's just a waste of time.
So as for the comment lets see what the Dave Cash interview does where the sale of the album is concerned. Well we all know that it won't help at all, we all know that.
We are currently in talks with promotion companies and there is interest from a few, and we are trying to decide which one will be the best one to go with, but of course they want paying.
Promotion is a very serious business and it's not cheap, and you have to find the correct company for the music you are trying to promote. Here is a point that proves my point, if you take the act's , and i use that word lightly , that appear on X factor and shows like that, do you think if they went to a talent contest or appeared at a local bar/ festival that they would get anywhere? Of course not, half of them can't sing or play, and rely on auto tune to even sound half decent, and without the professionals pushing them down our throats and making them look better than they are, they would not get a second look.
We have been told that we need to look at our overall image, and of course someone could help us with this, for a price of course!!
There are many people that want to help and we have had great comments from the likes of, Albert Lee, Gerry Hogan, Elio Pace, Brian Hodgson, John Permenter and many more famous artists saying that this album is one of the best albums that they have heard in years and Gerry said that the vocal and musicianship was some of the best he's heard especially from a Uk group, in many years and that the album deserves to be a great success!
I could list many other comments about the bands new album, and that does mean a lot to us, more in fact coming from professionals that have made the music business their main income.
We recently played a gig in Norfolk, and we decided to play most of the tracks off of the Album, and the applause was very generous, but the comments afterwards was, why didn't we play all the covers that they could dance to!!
So what is the point of recording new songs, and spending 6 months picking the tracks from thousands of songwriters, to end up with comments like that after travelling for 4 hours to get there, 2 hours to set up, and then the same after the gig to get home, we sold 2 cd's !!!!!
As for the Album being nominated for best album at the BCMA's this year, that's nice, but what will that achieve? Raintown or Pete Kennedy will win it, as the BCMA's are very clicky and they will go with people that are being pushed by individuals within the Uk country scene and not by the content of the recordings, don't get me wrong both artists are very good and i especially like Raintown, i think that they are a great outfit doing what they believe in, and they deserve to go far, but how far will they get if they run up against the same thoughts of the Uk country scene ? We have played many gig's to a lot of the clubs and festivals in this country and apart from The Stetson in Nottingham, they want to dance to tunes they know from the states and not listen or buy original material, and thats a fact not just my opinion.
So why do we do it?
Because A/ We don't want to be another UK band that just plays American covers to the same audiences, and B/ we are proud of what we do and have achieved so far, so why should we follow the majority of the Uk country scene? We are the Hayley Oliver Band not a karoke band, and we will never be that! Where will that get us, know where probably, but we will keep on doing what we believe in.
I believe that Hayley is the best female country singer currently in the Uk(my opinion only) and many people agree, the sheets that we get back from the Hotdisc DJ's across the world always have great things to say about the band(well except Lawrence John, who always gives us a low mark and comments like "average song, or "uninspiring" offering)
As for an expensive hobby, maybe thats one way of looking at it, but we go out of our way to produce quality, in what we record, what we play live and the videos that we produce.
I have read comments like The band should spend less on the quality recordings and more on the promotion, i agree to a certain extent, but we would feel bad about trying to sell a cheap or rushed product just to make money, we do it because we believe in what we do and want to produce Quality, not digitally enhanced, studio auto tuned, same old same old stuff.
So far the last Album has cost upwards of 18k without any promotion costs yet, but we have a product that can stand up along side any professional recorded material, and the comments from our peers make it worthwhile.
We also have another problem, we are a six piece band looking to make it a seven piece with the inclusion of a steel player, when we are asked to do gigs, they are expecting us to travel for upwards of 4 hours with all the gear, set it all up, then take it all down, and then drive back for about £700. To be honest it's not worth it most of the time so we instead pick the bigger venues, and we are now trying to concentrate on promoting the Album with a promotion company, we have also just secured a distribution deal with Proper Records, which should help to get the album to more places. We are a young band compared to a lot of the UK country bands, but we re considered old for the mainstream market, it's not just the quality of the product that is required now, it's the whole package that is required, age, image etc etc, talent and musicianship comes a poor 4th or 5th i think, as that can all be enhanced by computers even live!!!! So if you don't look right forget it, long gone are the days when the music was taken at face value for what it is, good bad or indifferent, if today you don't fit, you could have the best song in the world and get absolutely nowhere.
Anyway i could go on all night but i have to cook dinner, but if there are any other questions that you have or you would like to know more about the band or indeed if you could give us some advice, then please feel free to do so
thanks Guys
Nigel
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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby Moshe » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:09 pm

Interesting.
So, essentially, British country musos/singers do this largely as a hobby?
I suppose some at some time get lucky I am thinking Hank Wangford, who was taken up by the media & got presentation jobs on TV/Radio.
Another exception would be Charlie Landsborough who was able to give up his teaching job to become a full time singer/songwriter. But then I suppose Landsborough's key audience are Irish/Easy Listening, rather than country
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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby gunner25 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:29 pm

Hi Moshe,

We have been told that it is pointless calling ourselves country anymore, that we would have more success if we called ourself an Americana act, think of that as you will, i don't think what you call us will make a difference, we are what we are, a damn gooid band that is trying to produce a good quality product, full stop !

Nige
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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby gunner25 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:34 pm

I have just read that back and i was not trying to say that we are above the rest, it sounded a bit big headed, i didn't mean it that way

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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby LoneShark » Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:15 pm

Nigel, it was me who made the comment on the most money should be spent on promotion, which in turn was a direct quote along with others from Mike Curb in Nashville when I was fortunate enough to have a chat with him years back. Any serious musician would know quality should never be compromised, however in the real world of the music business the numbers need to add up.

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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby gunner25 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:02 pm

Hi Loneshark,

I agree thats why we are now looking at professional help, best leave that sort of stuff to people in the know, just all depends on what the price tag is

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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby Moshe » Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:42 am

gunner25 wrote:Hi Guys, thanks for the comments and the input.
I agree with a lot of what has been said, but let me tell you the bands position.
We do not make any money from gigging at all, i don't know who does, unless you play 3-4 times a week.
As for the promotion of the Album, well we have tried to do it ourselves and if you don't know the right people or the right places to promote it, it's just a waste of time.
So as for the comment lets see what the Dave Cash interview does where the sale of the album is concerned. Well we all know that it won't help at all, we all know that.
We are currently in talks with promotion companies and there is interest from a few, and we are trying to decide which one will be the best one to go with, but of course they want paying.
Promotion is a very serious business and it's not cheap, and you have to find the correct company for the music you are trying to promote. Here is a point that proves my point, if you take the act's , and i use that word lightly , that appear on X factor and shows like that, do you think if they went to a talent contest or appeared at a local bar/ festival that they would get anywhere? Of course not, half of them can't sing or play, and rely on auto tune to even sound half decent, and without the professionals pushing them down our throats and making them look better than they are, they would not get a second look.
We have been told that we need to look at our overall image, and of course someone could help us with this, for a price of course!!
There are many people that want to help and we have had great comments from the likes of, Albert Lee, Gerry Hogan, Elio Pace, Brian Hodgson, John Permenter and many more famous artists saying that this album is one of the best albums that they have heard in years and Gerry said that the vocal and musicianship was some of the best he's heard especially from a Uk group, in many years and that the album deserves to be a great success!
I could list many other comments about the bands new album, and that does mean a lot to us, more in fact coming from professionals that have made the music business their main income.
We recently played a gig in Norfolk, and we decided to play most of the tracks off of the Album, and the applause was very generous, but the comments afterwards was, why didn't we play all the covers that they could dance to!!
So what is the point of recording new songs, and spending 6 months picking the tracks from thousands of songwriters, to end up with comments like that after travelling for 4 hours to get there, 2 hours to set up, and then the same after the gig to get home, we sold 2 cd's !!!!!
As for the Album being nominated for best album at the BCMA's this year, that's nice, but what will that achieve? Raintown or Pete Kennedy will win it, as the BCMA's are very clicky and they will go with people that are being pushed by individuals within the Uk country scene and not by the content of the recordings, don't get me wrong both artists are very good and i especially like Raintown, i think that they are a great outfit doing what they believe in, and they deserve to go far, but how far will they get if they run up against the same thoughts of the Uk country scene ? We have played many gig's to a lot of the clubs and festivals in this country and apart from The Stetson in Nottingham, they want to dance to tunes they know from the states and not listen or buy original material, and thats a fact not just my opinion.
So why do we do it?
Because A/ We don't want to be another UK band that just plays American covers to the same audiences, and B/ we are proud of what we do and have achieved so far, so why should we follow the majority of the Uk country scene? We are the Hayley Oliver Band not a karoke band, and we will never be that! Where will that get us, know where probably, but we will keep on doing what we believe in.
I believe that Hayley is the best female country singer currently in the Uk(my opinion only) and many people agree, the sheets that we get back from the Hotdisc DJ's across the world always have great things to say about the band(well except Lawrence John, who always gives us a low mark and comments like "average song, or "uninspiring" offering)
As for an expensive hobby, maybe thats one way of looking at it, but we go out of our way to produce quality, in what we record, what we play live and the videos that we produce.
I have read comments like The band should spend less on the quality recordings and more on the promotion, i agree to a certain extent, but we would feel bad about trying to sell a cheap or rushed product just to make money, we do it because we believe in what we do and want to produce Quality, not digitally enhanced, studio auto tuned, same old same old stuff.
So far the last Album has cost upwards of 18k without any promotion costs yet, but we have a product that can stand up along side any professional recorded material, and the comments from our peers make it worthwhile.
We also have another problem, we are a six piece band looking to make it a seven piece with the inclusion of a steel player, when we are asked to do gigs, they are expecting us to travel for upwards of 4 hours with all the gear, set it all up, then take it all down, and then drive back for about £700. To be honest it's not worth it most of the time so we instead pick the bigger venues, and we are now trying to concentrate on promoting the Album with a promotion company, we have also just secured a distribution deal with Proper Records, which should help to get the album to more places. We are a young band compared to a lot of the UK country bands, but we re considered old for the mainstream market, it's not just the quality of the product that is required now, it's the whole package that is required, age, image etc etc, talent and musicianship comes a poor 4th or 5th i think, as that can all be enhanced by computers even live!!!! So if you don't look right forget it, long gone are the days when the music was taken at face value for what it is, good bad or indifferent, if today you don't fit, you could have the best song in the world and get absolutely nowhere.
Anyway i could go on all night but i have to cook dinner, but if there are any other questions that you have or you would like to know more about the band or indeed if you could give us some advice, then please feel free to do so
thanks Guys
Nigel

Hi Nigel.
I just re-read this post. Very informative and interesting detail of the trials and tribulations of being a British country music band.
All I can add is to express my admiration for what you are doing & trying to do. As to putting time effort and money into making a quality product, I am glad you do! I have in the past bought British albums that were shoddily produced & generally poor product, which meant I only listened to them once!!
I am glad you are doing mostly original material now. I had an album of the Hayley Oliver Band a few years back, & while I was overall impressed, I found some of the covers pointless. For example, who would you rather hear sing Redneck Woman, Gretchen Wilson or Hayley Oliver?
As to the venues- the Country Clubs audience do not seem to be appreciative of what you do, seemingly preferring a covers band. I presume you have looked at other venues? Then again, there is a paucity of small/ medium sized venues, particularly in the London area.
Anyway, the best of luck to you. I agree that appearing on one or two radio or tv shows will not given a magical boost to your career. You need, as you say, good PR.
Even "stars" of shows like "X Factor", "Talent" & so on, who appear before millions of viewers week after week, do not find this ends in any sort of career boost, with few exceptions.
American Idol is rather different- that show has indeed given rise to several huge stars- including Carrie Underwood and Kelly Clarkson.
But as for British talent shows, the high of winning one of these contests is usually followed by the low of a career end.
Any stars come out of The Voice?????
Cor Blimey, Guv'nor! 8)
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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby livewire » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:01 pm

gunner25 wrote:Hi Guys, thanks for the comments and the input.........We have been told that we need to look at our overall image, and of course someone could help us with this, for a price of course!!.....There are many people that want to help and we have had great comments from the likes of, Albert Lee, Gerry Hogan, Elio Pace, Brian Hodgson, John Permenter and many more famous artists saying that this album is one of the best albums that they have heard in years and Gerry said that the vocal and musicianship was some of the best he's heard especially from a Uk group, in many years and that the album deserves to be a great success!...... we are now trying to concentrate on promoting the Album with a promotion company, we have also just secured a distribution deal with Proper Records, which should help to get the album to more places.


The advert looks proffesional, the only thing I would flag up is the quote, as The Stetson Ravenshead means little to me.
You spoke about the great comments from Albert Lee etc and possibly from some of the better Radio stations (?) . Maybe a better choice would be to quote from them?

Proper Records were a terrific label. They backed and supported some great touring acts. Names like Eve Selis and Gretchen Peters had some superb albums distributed by them which appeared in the shops. Also at gigs their free magazine was there for anyone to pick up. They used to regularly advertise in the UK country magazines. The thing is nowadays as far as my town is concerned all the Independent Record shopss have gone along with excellent retailers such as MVC. All I have is an HMV with a country section (unnamed) just 3ft wide with a very limited selection and several copies of the same disc one behind the other, often the Humphead Records ones.

As far as The Hayley Oliver Band playing gigs perhaps the CMC scene is not the best? What about the s-songwriter/ Folk club circuit. I've often seen bluegrass/ Alt/Americana/s-songwriter acts playing mostly original material where people listened, they were well received, and sold CD's. One Americana group I saw this year I only knew through one play on Bob Harris and speaking with other people that was the same reason they were there too. 2 covers in a 2hour + set and a great night of music.

As for image well I don't know if Hayley will need a Lady Gaga make-over but with country radio both in the US and UK so hung up on "Bro-Country" maybe all the band should be heavily tattoed wearing reverse baseball caps and making it loud and proud playing the party-hearty hits. The format has turned into one never-ending-beer-keg-dirt-road-good-time-I’m-country-truck song that most depicts women as sex objects.
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Re: Hayley Oliver Band - ABINGER GROVE

Postby kev » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:22 am

livewirer wrote:
As for image well I don't know if Hayley will need a Lady Gaga make-over but with country radio both in the US and UK so hung up on "Bro-Country" maybe all the band should be heavily tattoed wearing reverse baseball caps and making it loud and proud playing the party-hearty hits. The format has turned into one never-ending-beer-keg-dirt-road-good-time-I’m-country-truck song that most depicts women as sex objects.


Interesting comment from the guy responsible for the majority of posts here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10809 You're not DavidN in disguise are you?? :lol:
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